On women in leadership positions, gender quotas and good leadership

Antje, why is it important for women to hold management positions?

»In order to reflect society among its decision-makers. Great results cannot be achieved if only those managers with the same background, gender, age and convictions are making the decisions. With a high degree of diversity, one can do justice to the complexity of the decision-making process.«

Manfred, is marketing the first department at VAUDE to have a 50 % gender distribution at the management level?

»Marketing has the highest ratio at VAUDE. We now have three women and three men in management positions. For me, this is also a good reflection of society. Our work consists of communicating content to society, which is roughly half male and half female. So why should our communications be controlled by just one gender? This follows what Antje was saying about diversity.«

Sonja, what made you decide to take on a management position?

»I had been with VAUDE for five years and I felt the need to advance my professional development. In addition to operational tasks, I also became interested in taking on greater strategic responsibility. And I had an aspiration to have a greater impact.«

Antje:

»Unfortunately, it is often the case that women aren’t confident enough to take steps towards greater responsibility.

When I took over the company from my father, there weren’t as many female managers. We wanted to use our internal resources to fill empty positions, but I often received feedback from employees that I could definitely see in the role saying things like, “I’d like to continue working part-time and have time for my family and hobbies.” Or “It’s too much responsibility for me and the interaction at higher levels is too harsh – I wouldn’t like to get in the middle of that.”

After this experience we worked on these issues. In the past, the lights were often on at VAUDE until late in the night. Now there are no meetings after 5 pm. A lot of importance is attached to a good work-life balance – with flexible working hours, home office options, sports activities during the lunch break or our organic canteen, for example. Our employees and managers also receive training in self-efficacy and communication. We’ve achieved a great deal, so that we have an impressive female gender ratio in management positions of 43 %.«

Tina, did this culture at VAUDE contribute to your decision to apply for the job?

»It’s definitely easier to take that step when the conditions are right. Here you get support and there are many positive examples – and that is very motivating.«

Antje, since 2016, a compulsory gender quota of 30 % has been in force for the supervisory boards of companies listed on the stock exchange that are subject to parity co-determination. In your opinion, should there be a broad gender quota?

»I am divided on that. On one hand, we have major social issues such as poverty among elderly women and the gender pay gap. These issues could be counteracted with gender quotas. Above all, I see that voluntary action alone is often not enough. This is similar to the issue of sustainability.

On the other hand, I am aware of the shortage of skilled workers and changing demographics. It would be good to proceed according to the “comply or explain” principle. Either you meet the goals or you have to explain why you didn’t manage it. For example, I have two excellent male department heads here in our marketing department – of course I can't let them go just because of a quota. With the “comply or explain” principle, I could explain why it doesn't make sense in this case. At the very least, it would require awareness and intensive discussion.«

Manfred:

»I explicitly advocate for a gender quota. When I look over the job applications of recent years, those of female applicants were usually better. But when it comes to salary expectations and having clear goals – the men, who were effectively “worse”, presented themselves better than the women did. With a quota, companies would be obligated to take a closer look.«

Sonja:

»It also always depends on which company you are looking at. In the case of VAUDE, I don’t have the impression that we need legal regulations. But at other companies, women are clearly underrepresented.«

Antje:

»If we accept that women are underrepresented in management positions, we also have to accept that women will continue to earn less than men. This leads to the acceptance that the distribution of roles between men and women will remain the same. Clearly, with children, you might decide that the father goes to work as a higher earner and the mother stays at home, but this also creates an unequal distribution of tasks in the family. So there are many reasons for a gender quota.«

Manfred, to what extent do women manage differently than men?

»I think it is rather dependent on personality. There are men who have more “feminine” management styles and women who have a more “masculine” style. Antje, you are my first female executive and I can already see clear differences from my former employers. You are much more empathic and problems can be addressed. I wasn’t very familiar with that before I came to VAUDE. I'm sure this is something that was brought into the company by you.«

Antje:

»But that wasn’t always the case. At first I thought I had to take a hard line. And I had just finished writing my dissertation about a positive understanding of humanity and what that requires. My employees were quite quick to give me their opinions, and I started to question myself and then I noticed that actually, I wanted something entirely different.«

And what does the management culture at VAUDE look like now?

Antje: »It is important to me that managers give their employees space. The manager should be a framework provider and not somebody at the front lines brandishing a sword.«

Tina, what do you think? How do you run your team?

»I see my role as someone who brings together the experts on the team and provides a platform for exchange. It’s more along the lines of acting as a mouthpiece for the team – both inwardly and outwardly.«

Antje, what advice would you give Sonja and Tina in their new roles as leaders?

»Take the time to look inside yourself. Every person has his or her own personality. The roles are transferable, but one’s approach isn’t. I’m glad that I was confronted with this right from the start, even if it was painful. I was allowed a very strong influence over my company and I want to give my managers the space to be themselves as well. Only self-confident managers can authentically lead their teams. My advice – find yourself.«